Ok that is what I figured out.
But the inconvenient is that, after having typed manually an additional command line in the sif, then you can no more use the GUI for modifying things like changing a boundary condition for instance isn'it?
So my question is: is it not possible to do all this with the GUI? I say that because for me it is not obvious to generate "from nothing" a command line like "Body 2= Id" or your last additionnal command lines, you see? How is it possible to "dream" this if you don't know all the possible command lines?
Thanks for your comments about that.
Roland
how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
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kevinarden
- Posts: 2308
- Joined: 25 Jan 2019, 01:28
- Antispam: Yes
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Unfortunately it is not possible to everything Elmer in the GUI, the GUI can do the basics. For the rest there are documentation, manuals, non-GUI tutorials
https://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/sci/physics/elmer/doc/
and test cases
https://github.com/ElmerCSC/elmerfem/tr ... /fem/tests
and presentations
For the material of the previous presentations and videos of the previous webinar presentation you may visit:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwkr ... G_3Gy4RLvu
https://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/sci/physics/elmer/webinar/
For most of Elmer you have to edit the sif with a text editor.
https://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/sci/physics/elmer/doc/
and test cases
https://github.com/ElmerCSC/elmerfem/tr ... /fem/tests
and presentations
For the material of the previous presentations and videos of the previous webinar presentation you may visit:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwkr ... G_3Gy4RLvu
https://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/sci/physics/elmer/webinar/
For most of Elmer you have to edit the sif with a text editor.
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Ok thank you for all these help elements. I will take a look at these links and keep you informed.
I wanted also to ask you if you could give me some help about the other EM_levitation model which I posted a few days ago and which uses the NormalSolver for managing the freesurface of the liquid charge in levitation due to the electromagnetic forces. Please could we discuss this in the next hours? It would be really very kind of you if you could help me for this interesting model for which Peter gave me already a lot of promising help, but which don't work completely for the moment.
We keep us informed and many thanks in advance!
Roland
I wanted also to ask you if you could give me some help about the other EM_levitation model which I posted a few days ago and which uses the NormalSolver for managing the freesurface of the liquid charge in levitation due to the electromagnetic forces. Please could we discuss this in the next hours? It would be really very kind of you if you could help me for this interesting model for which Peter gave me already a lot of promising help, but which don't work completely for the moment.
We keep us informed and many thanks in advance!
Roland
-
kevinarden
- Posts: 2308
- Joined: 25 Jan 2019, 01:28
- Antispam: Yes
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
I will spend some time taking a look at the EM levitation and let you know if I learn anything useful.
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Yes it would be very kind of you!
Just for my information, as you are obviously a great Elmer specialist (I worked a lot with Comsol), are you part of Elmer's staff? Are you in Finland?
We keep us informed.
Roland
Just for my information, as you are obviously a great Elmer specialist (I worked a lot with Comsol), are you part of Elmer's staff? Are you in Finland?
We keep us informed.
Roland
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Hello,
Based on the clever trick shown by Thomas in this forum thread:
viewtopic.php?p=26123#p26123
adding the extra information required for the Free Surface solver to an ElmerGui project is possible. See the attached for a working example using your tank model.
Basically, use the free text input section under 'Constants' to add the Body 2 section, and use the free text input in Boundary Condition 3 to add the Body id.
Rich.
Based on the clever trick shown by Thomas in this forum thread:
viewtopic.php?p=26123#p26123
adding the extra information required for the Free Surface solver to an ElmerGui project is possible. See the attached for a working example using your tank model.
Basically, use the free text input section under 'Constants' to add the Body 2 section, and use the free text input in Boundary Condition 3 to add the Body id.
Rich.
- Attachments
-
- tank_model_2.zip
- (71.47 KiB) Downloaded 98 times
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Hi Rich,
Thank you very much for this excellent trick which allows to stay in the GUI!
But it seems to me a bit strange that, when you want to activate a solver (like the FreeSurfaceSolver) on a boundary, you have to do it "manually", while for activating a solver on a bulk (2d) Body you have just to activate this solver in the GUI and select the Body. Why is it not possible, on the same way, to activate a solver on a "1d Body" meaning on a boundary?
Another thing: you saw probably that I posted a few days ago a post about a EM_levitation model which I would like to set up. In this case, as the charge to levitate (thanks to the electromagnetic force given by a surrounding inductor) is a liquid without contact points with any wall, here it is no more possible to use the FreeSurfaceSolver. This is why, Peter Raback, who already gave me much promizing help, explained that in this situation, the NormalSolver should be used for writing the Free Surface moving mesh ALE (Arbitrarian-Lagrangian Eulerian) boundary relation, meaning that the normal mesh nodes displacement must be equal to the normal Navier Stokes displacement which is obtained in the NormalSolver by the time integration of the normal Navier Stokes velocity. For the moment the liquid charge starts to levitate but its shape becomes crazy and irregular after a few timesteps.
Kevinarden suggested to take a look at the model a few days ago. As I have no news from him until now, and if you have a little time, it would be very nice if you could perhaps take a look at this model.
Thanks in advance and we keep in touch.
Roland
Thank you very much for this excellent trick which allows to stay in the GUI!
But it seems to me a bit strange that, when you want to activate a solver (like the FreeSurfaceSolver) on a boundary, you have to do it "manually", while for activating a solver on a bulk (2d) Body you have just to activate this solver in the GUI and select the Body. Why is it not possible, on the same way, to activate a solver on a "1d Body" meaning on a boundary?
Another thing: you saw probably that I posted a few days ago a post about a EM_levitation model which I would like to set up. In this case, as the charge to levitate (thanks to the electromagnetic force given by a surrounding inductor) is a liquid without contact points with any wall, here it is no more possible to use the FreeSurfaceSolver. This is why, Peter Raback, who already gave me much promizing help, explained that in this situation, the NormalSolver should be used for writing the Free Surface moving mesh ALE (Arbitrarian-Lagrangian Eulerian) boundary relation, meaning that the normal mesh nodes displacement must be equal to the normal Navier Stokes displacement which is obtained in the NormalSolver by the time integration of the normal Navier Stokes velocity. For the moment the liquid charge starts to levitate but its shape becomes crazy and irregular after a few timesteps.
Kevinarden suggested to take a look at the model a few days ago. As I have no news from him until now, and if you have a little time, it would be very nice if you could perhaps take a look at this model.
Thanks in advance and we keep in touch.
Roland
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Hello Roland,
For your first point, as Kevin has pointed out, ElmerGUI has it's limitations and this situation is certainly near the limit. Fortunately, the free text input fields were in just the right spot in the edf xml files for this case.
For your second point, it's difficult for any forum participant to help in general terms. Asking a specific question, complete with geometry and sif file, usually gains the most help. If you'd like to post the latest version of your desired case, maybe even starting a new topic in the forum, then maybe someone will take the time to volunteer helpful hints. In other words, keep posting your most up to date models.
Regarding your EM levitation model, have you solved the problem of levitating a solid sphere? If you did, then maybe post that example as well?
Best regards, Rich.
For your first point, as Kevin has pointed out, ElmerGUI has it's limitations and this situation is certainly near the limit. Fortunately, the free text input fields were in just the right spot in the edf xml files for this case.
For your second point, it's difficult for any forum participant to help in general terms. Asking a specific question, complete with geometry and sif file, usually gains the most help. If you'd like to post the latest version of your desired case, maybe even starting a new topic in the forum, then maybe someone will take the time to volunteer helpful hints. In other words, keep posting your most up to date models.
Regarding your EM levitation model, have you solved the problem of levitating a solid sphere? If you did, then maybe post that example as well?
Best regards, Rich.
Re: how to use the NormalSolver in a CFD problem
Hi Rich,
Concerning the EM_levitation model, I didn't try to levitate a solid sphere since I would like to levitate a liquid with a free surface. Say that for me it will be a good test for seeing if this is possible with Elmer, meaning the managing of a whole freesurface in the air(without contact points).
As you suggest it I will post this model in a new forum topic in the next hours and hope that somebody could bring me some help, knowing that in the current advancement state it is already promising.
We keep us informed.
Roland
Concerning the EM_levitation model, I didn't try to levitate a solid sphere since I would like to levitate a liquid with a free surface. Say that for me it will be a good test for seeing if this is possible with Elmer, meaning the managing of a whole freesurface in the air(without contact points).
As you suggest it I will post this model in a new forum topic in the next hours and hope that somebody could bring me some help, knowing that in the current advancement state it is already promising.
We keep us informed.
Roland